How Should Christian Leaders Think About AI?

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Gavin Ortlund
Okay, so we’re gonna talk about artificial intelligence and for Christian leaders, what are the theological issues, the ethical issues that come up that we need to be thinking about in relation to this topic?

Jay Kim
Yeah, for me on a personal level, just living in and pastoring in, and serving and loving a community of Jesus followers can right in the heart of Silicon Valley, it comes up a lot. And there’s so much to say about it. But for me, I think the first thought that comes to mind, as the starting point is, most of us have been duped into believing that digital tools are just benign tools we use. But it’s pretty clear at this point based on just various social psychologists and people like Tristan Harris and Sherry Turkle, and others, just on and on. These technological tools are incentivized a particular way. And so, you know, we become the tools. And we were talking before we started filming about, you know, the dehumanizing potential of some of these tools. And I think for me, that’s the thing that’s most alarming, you know, I was just reading not long ago, all of these social media influencers are now sort of selling AI, girlfriend, boyfriend accounts, you can pay a certain fee a month, and you get pictures and this instant chat with an AI that replicates the personality of this real human and the real humans, not embodied or involved in any way. It’s just a computer sort of generating a digital version of this person. And I worry about that a lot that we are now acquiescing real embodied human relationships, for the the seeming convenience of a digital girlfriend, that will, you know, never complain, that will always just do and say, and be kind of what you want them to be. And it’s dehumanizing for the participant, I think, you know, and that, to me, that strikes me as a real danger.

Gavin Ortlund
Yeah, it’s, it’s sobering to see where we already are, with the technology that’s there. You know, I think about AI and I think of something that feels very futuristic and sci fi, but we’re there. In terms of the basic questions we need to ask, even just the way we relate to our iPhone, you know, something I think about every day with my iPhone is, how can I be tempted to use this to escape my humanity, the basic God given limitations that are upon my life, God made me as a creature who lives in time. So there should be some seasons where I’m, I’m not entertained. Yeah, you know, but I can use my iPhone to try to escape that normal, healthy, human dynamic by always having it there. And just what you said is sobering. You know, it, to paraphrase one of your first comments. It’s not we who are using the technology, it’s the technology that is using us in a very profound sense. And I think, approaching that not in a spirit of judgment for what’s out there. But with a humility to say, none of us are above being tempted toward that dehumanizing tendency, you know, I find for myself, every three or four months, I have to revisit my social media practices, and make sure that it’s not overrun the boundaries. And they’re designed to be addictive. So they will break down our barriers, and we have to keep going back and setting good boundaries. So that is not overrunning our life.

Jay Kim
Yeah, we’ve talked about human beings being being made, you know, again, as embodied creatures, we are made for limits. And there’s a strange sort of paradoxical liberation in the limits, you know, and Neil Postman wrote a lot about how, if everything matters so much, nothing really matters, like everything becomes trivial, and I think most people can relate to that sort of numbing feeling of a constant bombardment, bombardment of stimuli as we like, our thumbs are just endlessly scrolling, but nothing really grabs us, you know, like, everything’s, everything’s grabbing our attention, nothing is holding our attention. And it’s not because the world isn’t just as incredible as God always intended it for it to be. It’s because we’ve become numb, you know, to the gift. That is you and me. CS Lewis has that fantastic line, you’ve never met a mere mortal and Mago de the image of God in one another, but we’re, we’re way too scattered way too distracted to, to see it and to experience it.

Gavin Ortlund
You know, that’s one thing that this topic of AI brings up for me, is the value and uniqueness of human beings because no matter how far our technology goes, is no matter what we can create what kind of robot we could build or something, we can never create an eternal soul. And only God does that. And so it makes you value that more and then, so that we can pastor people watching this a little bit, maybe somebody I find when I talk about social media addiction and things like that, a lot of times people feel these waves of guilt or shame, because a lot of us just get enmeshed. And we feel hopeless to get out of that. But just to encourage people. You know, one way you can fight that is divert those needs in your heart to real authentic friendships, and pour your heart into other people in your life. And anytime you’re tempted to go scroll, or you find yourself scrolling on social media, have a friend that you give a call, or you go on a walk with, or you step outside, or you do something healthy and life giving. And I think it helps to not just fight against those temptations, but to try to divert those needs in our heart to a healthy solution. And a lot of that can be much of that is in our intimacy with Christ himself. But it can also come through each other, and just the wonderful gift of human friendship.

Jay Kim
Yeah, when you deconstruct technology to its core, in its essence, even AI is something as complex as that it all comes down to ones and zeroes, and electrical circuits, and, you know, like frequencies and waves and all of those things, but only God breathes life in he only God breathes the spirit into humans, you know, and to see that in each other. That ones and zeros did not create you and me. God did and there’s something really unique about that. And to leave behind the algorithms for a while and to be with and to be human with another human I think is such a good word. Yeah.