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Mark Vroegop
So, Erwin, you and I have been in pastoral ministry for a while. Decades, right? We should know more than we do made a lot of mistakes. We’ve seen a lot of things. And one of the challenging situations that sometimes is presented, someone comes in for counseling. And the question is, when do we refer somebody outside of the church for, let’s say, more professional counseling? And actually, this is a good question for you, because you’ve not only been a pastor for decades, but also your wife is pursuing becoming a professional therapist. So when do we think we need to refer people?
Irwyn Ince
Yeah, it’s an important questions. We’ve got to recognize our own limits, as pastors are very regularly or very, right, we’ll take a counseling course, as we are in seminary, but that does not make us equipped to be professional counselors. And so so people are always coming to us for advice for what we might call counsel, or winning, recognize the limits that we have, when someone may be experiencing trauma and distress, that requires not just a few sessions, let’s come meet together, let’s talk things out. And you recognize, oh, there’s, there’s some deeper issues here that are going on, that are not just around, you know, relational difficulties you might be having. But there’s some things that need to be unpacked. One, as a pastor, a typically, even if I am, I’ve got a master’s in divinity and a Master’s in Counseling, I typically as a pastor don’t actually have the time to do in depth one on one therapy sessions with with a parishioner. And so recognizing that even if I am equipped from an education standpoint, that it might be best to refer that that individual or couple, to a professional counselor, and not just kind of tossing them over the wall, as it were. But having a relationship, what we would do is have relationships with Christian counselors in our area, and develop even a support relationship where we might actually help pay for the counseling, and have that kind of where we, as an elder, board or session, are still walking alongside our parishioners. And while they are also getting professional counseling. And and embracing that as a good night, there’s not forsaking our duties is actually a part of what we’re called to do and be hasn’t come alongside folks.
Mark Vroegop
Yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it that it used to be maybe for understandable reasons that the church saw a professional therapist, as somebody who maybe they were almost against, in some respects, because sometimes professional therapy from a non Christian perspective gives advice and counsel, that’s just completely contrary to Scripture. But seeing the value of this person who might be able to offer wisdom in a complex situation, based upon their experience as a counselor, or their training, I think is can be uniquely helpful. And one thing that we have found is adding into the mix with that particular model, a community of people even assigned community of people who are going to be there in the non therapy session conversations. And, you know, therapists are pretty excited about that, like, oh, yeah, we’d love to have somebody else who’s involved to help kind of continue the conversation. And so I think finding the right therapist, knowing when Hey, this, I need some additional help or additional counsel. And also, I think the really good point you made about the time Peace is really critical, because people do need enough time to unpack those complex stories, and that we live in a increasingly complex world and thank God for people who can help us when it feels like when we know we could help, but we’d help better if we had somebody else walking alongside us
